Hello! Linsy here, and I’m back to answer another fantastic LTYG reader question!
This week’s question reads:
“How long should I take an anti-pathogen? What factors aid in determining how long to continue the oregano oil protocol or when to stop it – temporarily or otherwise?”
In short, you will have to listen to your own body wisdom and/or work with a holistic practitioner, as each person has different tolerance thresholds.
That being said, if you are not yet aware of your threshold it is best to either seek professional guidance, or as I always say, start LOW AND SLOW. This means start with a very small amount, or very low dosage, less frequent and slowly work your way up based on your body’s tolerance levels until you find your threshold.
While I am not a doctor, I will share with you my experiences (under the care of my practitioners and coaches) in hopes they provide you with some ideas as to where to start:
From my blog post, Anti-Pathogen Treatment: The Fundamental Way to Heal Your Gut!, I speak about the need to cycle on and off anti-pathogens from Jini’s protocol. If you haven’t read this blog post yet and are interested in incorporating an anti-pathogen into your healing journey, I HIGHLY recommend you check it out!
In this blog, I mention how often you should take anti-pathogens really varies, as it depends on the severity and your stage of healing. If you go by the slow-and-low suggestion I mentioned earlier, it could take you a year to build up to a therapeutic dose… or you could get there in one day with no issues at all. For myself, it took me quite a while to build up to a therapeutic dose. Everyone is SO different, so it’s best to start slow and listen to what your body needs.
What’s most important, however, is the need to cycle on and off anti-pathogens. You won’t be on an anti-pathogen treatment every day for the rest of your life – and in reality, you should only use an anti-pathogen until the infection is gone. It is not intended for long-term, everyday use, but sometimes our gut is so full of toxins that it takes more than just one cycle to sweep out all the “bad guys.” This is where cycling begins.
Per Jini:
“You can cycle on and off as needed because you may have a bacteria/fungal hybrid that has a dormant/active life cycle – this can take up to 3 years to clear completely.”
In addition to the dormant life cycles, I think it’s important that your body gets a break to detox the pathogens. So, taking time off treatments allows this.
Since cycling is important, it’s best to work with your doctor or coach to determine what will work best for you and your situation. Here are a few different ways I approached cycling during my healing.
Cycling On & Off of Anti-Pathogens
#1.) Two days on, one day off
This is a brilliant method my coach taught me that is simple but still gives a break in between for that cycling, as well as a break for your body to process and detox properly. This worked well for me for quite a while!
In this scenario, you would take the anti-pathogens for two days, then stop completely for one day, then repeat. I did this for a month straight sometimes, if I tolerated it.
#2.) Three to four weeks on, then stop completely.
This is basically one month on and one month off. It’s important you stop at a month maximum because your body needs a break – and you don’t want to build up resistance to a certain anti-pathogen.
#3.) Two weeks off, two weeks on.
This breaks up the month nicely, allowing breaks in between for the dormant cycles and our body to process.
The Importance of Dosage Level
How you approach cycling also depends on the dosage you’re taking. If you are taking a high dose – like 15 plus drops multiple times a day, for example – then a month on that dosage is probably overkill. In this situation, I personally would probably do the 15 drops two days on, then two days off for only one to two weeks. Again, just because these are high doses – but these are just suggestions from my journey, so do what you feel is best, or what your practitioner or coach recommends!
If you’re starting low and slow, generally you can be on anti-pathogens for a longer time than those who can tolerate higher doses.
You can see there is a lot of wiggle room depending on your body, so let your body guide you. Based on your symptoms, usually, you will know very quickly how much is too much or when a break is needed.
I always took a break off when my symptoms or HERX got too intense, even when using binders and ensuring my detox pathways were open. It’s a fine line between pushing it a bit and pushing too hard, so don’t go too fast and end up making your symptoms worse!
Taking Breaks With Anti-Pathogens
There is no right or wrong way here – the only important thing is to take breaks. Again, for three reasons:
#1.) To allow your body to properly detox the pathogens out.
#2.) Breaks allow the bacteria/fungus/viruses dormant/active cycles to happen so you can effectively treat them.
#3.) So you don’t build up a tolerance to one anti-pathogen, making it ineffective.
Jini says that many people (especially those with stubborn infections) prefer to alternate between olive leaf and wild oil of oregano. They feel this is a more powerful approach so that the pathogens don’t get used to one substance.
So, this is another great suggestion! Instead of breaking up using just the WOO, you can also try taking those breaks and then switching the anti-pathogen you’re using to keep the bacteria, virus, fungus, etc. “on their toes” so to speak.
Just a reminder, though, that whenever you introduce an anti-pathogen, start slowly to make sure your body is ok with it. Then you can build up your dosage until you eventually have two great forms of treatment – WOO and olive leaf!
You can find both the WOO and Olive leaf in our shoppe:
Thanks so much for joining me today! I hope that you found this information and my experiences helpful, and that these suggestions can help steer you towards a protocol that’s a great fit for you.
So now I want to ask you, the LTYG community, if there are any specific questions you want to be answered? Is there something you are struggling with? Let me know so we can share our experiences with you, and help support you along the way!
Until next time, happy healing – and remember to always listen to your gut!
Hi! Thank you for this info, I’m rapidly learning after an out of the blue severe/complicated diverticulitis incident where one of the pockets ruptured and perforated my colon. I was in the hospital for 2 days on IV antibiotics followed by another week on oral antibiotics. I’m taking the powdered Natren probiotics as I know I need to replenish the good bacteria in my gut. My question is, finally… do I still need to do the Wild Oregano Protocol (oregano all day, high dose probiotics at night) or have the crazy strong antibiotics I was on already killed off all the bad bacteria? Should just focus on the probiotic protocol? Any thoughts on that would be really appreciated!
Hi Shannon! Great question! My first thoughts are that if the wild oregano protocol is incorporated, that really is A LOT on the liver following a dose of antibiotics. It’s also a lot for the body to detox, so if it were me personally I would hold off on WOO until after the antibiotics are done – then, when you feel your gut and body are ready, bring it back in.
In the meantime, I would do the Natren probiotics in high doses, if possible, and lots of detoxing (like using an infrared sauna) to help detox all the medications from your body. But, these are my personal thoughts on the matter, and I’m not a doctor! So best to listen to your gut and consult your doctor or naturopath if you are unsure. 🙂
Thank you Linsy! That makes total sense. Much appreciated :-))
You are so very welcome! Happy to help!
Hi Linsy/Jini,
I started the Elemental Diet 6 weeks ago along with oregano oil, Aloe Vera and Natren (started 1 week ago). Prior to this my Calprotectin was 318 and today I got my result and it was 500! Is this normal to happen? Is this a detox response? My symptoms (low iron and night time incontinence) have definitely got better, which does not align with my results. I have had surgery and struggle with Chronic pouchitis.
I maybe thought it may have to do with the oregano oil as I have been on high dose for 6 weeks. Would you recommend I stop for now? I started with 5 drops per day then 12 drop per day (6 drops twice per day) then 15 drops per day and now come down to 12 per day. Have I been on it too long?
Hello! Thanks for reaching out! Calprotectin levels can shift for SO many reasons, so it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what may have triggered your response.
You mentioned that you have been doing high dose WOO (wild oregano oil) for 6 weeks, but only started Natren a week ago. Perhaps because you were doing high dose WOO for 5 weeks without replenishing your gut flora with good bacteria this could have caused some inflammation since you are wiping all bacteria out? Also, it is a good idea to take a break from any antipathogen after a month to 6 weeks, so you are right at that point.
I always take breaks from WOO after some time. If it were me, I would pause the WOO for a few weeks to a month and continue with shakes, probiotics, and aloe vera. I’m also curious which probiotics you’re taking?
I would also do a probiotic enema in addition to Natren probiotics. This can get the probiotics in the colon where the inflammation may be: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/tips-for-jinis-probiotic-retention-enema/
It could be that the WOO is too much now, and you need to repopulate your gut flora with good bacteria since you went 5 weeks taking WOO without any probiotics. Here are two free downloads with a bit more information about woo and probiotics:
https://listentoyourgut.com/woo/
https://listentoyourgut.com/probiotics/
Detox reactions happen quite frequently to people (especially me), so take everything low and slow always starting with a pinch of probiotics and one drop of tinctures. Better to do it this way and increase as needed than freak the body out! Here’s a helpful video: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/how-to-reduce-herxheimer-reaction-detox-sensitivity/
Whenever I get a reaction, I stop everything for a few days or a week to let my body reset. Then you may want to look at natural anti-inflammatories., but remember to start slowly. Introduce things one at a time, and really stop to see how your body reacts. There’s no rush! 🙂
Also – what environmental or emotional components are there? It could also be an emotional component – perhaps something stressful you are going through at the same time?
Here is an amazing video on this: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/emotional-spiritual-causes-of-high-calprotectin-levels/
All my best!
-Linsy
Hi Linsy,
Thank you for your response.
During the first 5 weeks I was taking symprove probiotics but not sure if it did much to be honest. That could be the case where it may have been too much.
I will pause the woo for now and check how I am going in 2 to 3 weeks. I am currently on 2 Trinity – 1 first thing morning empty stomach a day 1 just before sleep. My inflammation is solely in the Jpouch so I intuitively thought skipping phase 2 and going straight to phase 3. I have yet to do the enema as I don’t have those specific powders.
Regarding food, I am still having 1 meal at night which usually consists or protein, fats and very small amount of carbs.
Can you give me any suggestions as to what I should do? Stop woo and continue with the probiotics, shakes and aloe?
Thanks,
Karan
Karan,
You are so welcome! Yes, I can totally understand why you skipped a few of the steps.
I would, however, like to reiterate what Jini always says, which is taking a whole mind-body approach. So just because there is inflammation in one certain spot, you should still treat the whole body – as emotional and systemic things affect all parts of the body.
I think you are on the right track with healthy trinity (I love those). If you can tolerate those, they are great and go right to the intestines. We only recommend Natren probiotics for these reasons: https://shoppe.listentoyourgut.com/shop-by-probiotics/
So if I was you, and at this point, since you are exactly unsure of what caused your calprotectin levels to rise, I would continue on the probiotics shakes and aloe before starting WOO again. Just because it is essential to have high quality and high CFU probiotics while taking WOO. Enemas are great ways of adding additional Natren probiotics.
Calprotectin can be affected even by food allergies and many other things, so just make sure you are using Absorb Plus shakes or following Jini’s low residue diets (if you tolerate them). https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/jinis-low-residue-diet/
Some have found Chaga to be helpful with inflammation: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/the-power-of-shrooms-chaga-for-ibd-gut-issues/
Also, ask your doctor about Mucosacalm. Daily taking these can be very helpful for people to calm and support healing in the GI tract: https://shoppe.listentoyourgut.com/imix-nutrition-mucosacalm-90-capsules/
Another thing you could try is getting a G.I MAP stool test. This will show calprotectin levels, but it will also test for a ton of things, which may give you a better idea of what may be causing this inflammation in the first place – and then better isolate treatment. When you know what pathogen is causing the inflammation sometimes it’s easier to create a protocol!
Here is a blog I wrote on it: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/my-experience-with-gi-map-stool-testing/
-Linsy
Thanks linsy.
In jinis book, she has also noted that there was significant healing when jpouch patients used L glutamine as an enema into the pouch directly. What’s your thoughts on that?
Hi Karan,
I personally don’t have a j-pouch, so I can’t comment on using it that way specifically, but what I can tell you is that I used L-Glutamine a lot when I was healing my ulcers – and it was amazing! I absolutely loved it! It was huge for me, so I am a big fan of L-Glutamine as it can be tremendous for healing. Since you have a j-pouch, however, it’s best to consult your doctor or naturopath in this case.
Here are the powder and capsule options: https://shoppe.listentoyourgut.com/shop-by-l-glutamine/
I also enjoy using it in my nightly tea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6I8sM7n8bU&t=22s
We’ve also had readers write in with success using Absorb Plus, especially those who have used psyllium seed powder at the same time to slow down the transit and bulk up the liquid. Here are some more details on that: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/ive-had-my-colon-removed-and-i-have-an-ileostomy-will-absorb-plus-still-work-for-me/
And here is a great blog post we have from a reader who has a J-pouch with some tips and tricks for irritation, etc.: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/colectomy-and-j-pouch-tips/
I hope this helps!
– Linsy
Hi Linsy,
What dose of glutamine did you take? And do you still consume it? Powder or enema?
Thanks,
Karan
Hi Karan! I used one capsule of Jini’s L-Glutamine each day in a tea or orally. This was enough for me.
I didn’t use it in an enema because Jini’s healing implant enema was sufficient enough for my symptoms. If you try it as an enema let us know how it goes!
-Linsy
Hello, Linsy.
The LTYG book and FB page has such wonderful information. Unfortunately, I feel as if I have researched protocols etc… until I am overloaded and confused.
I became ill with Crohns in 1981 and they diagnosed me in 1984. I have self regulated using a simple diet (if it hurts don’t eat it), exercise, Chiropractic and Acupuncture.
Currently I am battling recurring uveitis and this is where my research overload comes in. I have incorporated the following:
L Glutamine – 1/4 tsp every morning
Oreganol – 2 capsules 4 – 5x per day
Aloe Vera Juice – 1/3 cup 3 x per day
Natren probiotics powder form – 1/4 tsp each every night
In 4 days I will reach the 2 week mark on the oreganol. Should I switch to Olive Leaf for the next 2 weeks to keep moving forward in getting rid of the bad guys? I am trying to keep from taking Prednisone (the inflammation is also in the back of my eye which they tell me is systemic and want to put me on Humira which I will never take).
Are there additional steps needed to rid the body of inflammation? I know if I kick the infection I kick the inflammation.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Hi Debbie! Sorry to hear all you are going through! Here are my initial thoughts:
1) You can definitely switch between olive leaf and WOO if you want to. Many people (especially those with stubborn infections) prefer to alternate between olive leaf and wild oregano, so that the pathogens don’t get used to any one substance – they feel this is a more powerful approach. Generally I will take an anti-pathogen for a certain length of time, then take a little break, then start again, but you want to do whatever works best for your body! Here is a post on wrote with cycling suggestions: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/how-long-should-i-take-an-anti-pathogen/
And a bit more info in this post too: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/anti-pathogen-treatment-the-fundamental-way-to-heal-your-gut/
How you approach cycling also depends on the dosage you’re taking. If you are taking a high dose – like 15 plus drops multiple times a day, for example – then a month on that dosage is probably overkill. In this situation, I personally would probably do the 15 drops two days on, then two days off for only one to two weeks. Again, just because these are high doses – but these are just suggestions from my journey, so do what you feel is best, or what your practitioner or coach recommends!
If you’re starting low and slow, generally you can be on anti-pathogens for a longer time than those who can tolerate higher doses.
You can see there is a lot of wiggle room depending on your body, so let your body guide you. Based on your symptoms, usually, you will know very quickly how much is too much or when a break is needed.
I always took a break off when my symptoms or HERX got too intense, even when using binders and ensuring my detox pathways were open. It’s a fine line between pushing it a bit and pushing too hard, so don’t go too fast and end up making your symptoms worse!
2) If you are struggling with inflammation in the body, you may need some additional support to bring that down while following your protocol. Zinc specifically is something you may want to think about including: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/zinc-for-wound-healing-inflammation-dna-immunity/
Here’s a great reader story from someone who was also struggling with inflammation:
https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/my-experience-with-the-ibd-remission-diet-stricture-better-ulcers-inflammation-gone/
Unfortunately we don’t have any info on uveitis, however, you may find some info in this blog post helpful (check the comments too for more valuable info):
https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/dmso-eyedrops-for-cataracts-macular-degeneration-floaters-vision/
At the same time, it is essential to work on any emotional component that could be contributing to the issue. Here is another post I wrote on my experience getting EBV, which was a contributing factor to my UC, and the emotional lesson it taught me: https://blog.listentoyourgut.com/how-emotions-affect-the-physical-body/
I also swear by acupressure tapping, or Lazer Tapping, which has helped me immensely in so many ways. You’ll find a bit of info on Lazer Tapping in the above post, and you can learn even more here: https://lazertapping.com/
This is another fantastic meditation you may want to look into: https://shoppe.listentoyourgut.com/whole-body-healing-divine-light-meditation-mp3-audio/
I know that was a lot of info, but I really hope you find some of this helpful! Best to you.